Oh, hello there, and welcome to our home offices. Uh, this, this is what my home office looks like at the moment. I often change the background and do all sorts of funny things.

Um, Kate, you’re in your home office

Yeah. Um, so I’m hoping that over the course of however many episodes that we do, um, I’m watching this guy. I want him to, like, thicken out a bit and become, like, a proper nice hanging plant. So that’s gonna be my measure. This podcast is gonna be the measure of my plant’s health.

We’ll look back on this in like six months and see that he’s, see that it’s grown.

Yeah.

Nice. Look, this is how we’re gonna do, uh, our breakdowns. We’re gonna jump into a speech breakdown today. Uh, if you haven’t heard or seen one of these before, we’re gonna line up a TED Talk or some kind of presentation and then we pause it when we feel like we have something to comment on, uh, to highlight strong things that the speaker is doing, talk about any of the visuals, maybe even pick up some things that kind of annoy us a little bit or we think there’s a learning opportunity from.

And, uh, yeah, we’re getting stuck straight into it. So Kate, Kate, tell us a little bit about this talk.

So this one is, it’s actually, um, one of the TED Talks that we wanted to do originally, but we decided we couldn’t because it was too visual. So now we’re in a visual format, um, and we can actually do it. So it is from ages ago. It is from 2013, so 13 years ago. It is Amy Webb, How I Hacked Online Dating. I haven’t watched it in probably close to 10 years, but I remember really liking it at the time.

I’m excited to see what, um, what I saw in it at the time, and if my opinion has changed at all, um, in that time. So yeah, keen to watch it

Yeah, I haven’t watched it in probably five years as well, but classic. It sat on the l- to-do list, uh, for the podcast, so now we’re doing it

Let’s crack on. This is Amy Webb, How I Hacked Online Dating

So my name is Amy Webb, and a few years ago, I found myself at the end of yet another fantastic relationship that came burning down in a spectacular fashion. And, uh, I thought, “You know, what’s wrong with me? I don’t understand why this keeps happening.” So I asked everybody in my life, you know, what they thought. turned to my grandmother, who always had plenty of advice. Uh, and she said, “Stop being so picky. You’ve gotta date around. And most importantly, true love will find you when you least expect it.” as it turns out, I’m somebody who thinks a lot about data, as you’ll soon find. Uh, I, I am constantly swimming in numbers and formulas and charts. Um, I also-

Love this. Like straight away, like I’m looking at her, um, PowerPoint. It was almost like one of those, um, ugh, PechaKucha. What are, what are those ones called where the,

Yep

changes like every couple of seconds? Like we’re only, I don’t know, like a minute in and there’s already been like six slides, which is fine. But I’m just looking at this and I love when people put their history visually or like their life visually exactly like she has here. Um, you just see exactly what her plan is. I mean, this is a forward-looking not, um, not a back-looking, but I just love when people put their lives in a timeline like this

Really like, uh, you can see here this is a 15-ish minute talk. She does not have time to fiddle around at the start. She just got straight into it, straight into the story. “I found myself at the end of a relationship. I went to family for advice.” It’s just we’ve launched straight into it. There’s no beating around, um, getting direct, and this is clearly gonna be a talk about her dating life, as you can tell from, like, both the title and the introduction.

So good start

I have a, a very tight knit family and I’m very, very close with my sister, and as a result, I wanted to have the same type of family when I grew up. So I’m at the end of this bad breakup. I’m 30 years old. I figure, you know, I’m probably gonna have to date somebody for about six months before I’m ready to get monogamous and before we can sort of cohabitate, have that happen for a while before we can get engaged. And if I wanna start having children by the time I’m 35, that meant that I would have had to have been on my way to marriage five years ago. So that wasn’t gonna work. My strategy was to least expect my way into true love, then the variable that I had to deal with was serendipity. short, I was trying to figure out, well, what’s the probability of my finding Mr.

Right? at the time, I was living in the city of Philadelphia, and, uh, it’s a big city, and I figured, you know, in this entire place there are lots of possibilities. So again, I start doing some math. Um, population of Philadelphia, uh, has one point five million people. Figure about half of that are men, so that takes the number down to seven hundred and fifty thousand. I’m looking for a guy between the ages of 30 and 36, which, uh, was only four percent of the population, so now I’m dealing with the possibility of thirty thousand men. I was looking for somebody who was Jewish, ’cause that’s what I am, and it was important to me. It’s only two point three percent of the population. figure I’m attracted to maybe one out of ten of those men, uh, and there was n- you know, no way I was gonna deal with somebody who was an avid golfer.

All right, I need to pause. I am generally the PowerPoint guy. Um, if you’re listening, she has each of those talking points on the PowerPoint, right? Population of Philadelphia, the number who are men, the age group. Uh, what have we got? Six dot points there, and they all came up at once while she’s talking. I would have really liked to see this with each of those lines come up one at a time as she talks about them.

Um, I even– I found myself reading ahead a little bit. There’s percentages, there’s numbers. It’s, it’s not dense, but it is full on, and I would just like to see that come up as she talks about each point rather than all at once

Yeah. Look, the only thing I can think of here is, like, she is so far ahead of her time because all I can hear is, “I’m looking for a guy in finance, trust fund, 6’5″, blue eyes. Do you know what I’m talking about?”

You are so living in a post-TikTok era, aren’t you?

That’s all I can see here. Cross refund, 6’5″, blue eyes.

Um, so that basically meant there were 35 men for me that I could- possibly date in the entire city of Philadelphia. In the meantime, my very large Jewish family, uh, was already all married and start well on their way to having lots and lots of children, and I felt like I was under tremendous peer pressure to get my life going already. So if I have two possible strategies at this point I’m sort of figuring out. One, I can take my grandmother’s advice and sort of least expect my way into maybe bumping into the one out of 35 possible men in the entire 1.5 million person city of Philadelphia, or I could try online dating. Now, I like the idea of online dating because it’s predicated on an algorithm, and that’s really just a simple way of saying, “I’ve got a problem.

I’m gonna use some data, run it through a, a system, and get to a solution.” So online dating is the second most popular way that people now meet each other. But as it turns-

I’m just thinking here that she has just explained an incredibly complex, um, concept an insanely simply, simple way, which is like the concept of algorithm, which is I’ve got a problem, run it through an algorithm, get to a solution, or run it through, um, some program, get to a solution. Like, that is the simplest form of an algorithm is. Um, I just think it was a beautiful way of, of explaining it

Yeah. Yeah. Especially for the online dating algorithms, nobody really knows how they work, certainly not the user. And when we’re on the other side of that and maybe we do understand the algorithm or the history of it and how we fixed it and whatnot, you could get caught in trying to over-explain that when really what we kind of care about is problem goes in, data happens, solution comes out.

So yeah, good point

Out, algorithms have been around for thousands of years in, in almost every culture. In fact, in Judaism, there were matchmakers a long time ago, and though they didn’t have an explicit per se, they definitely were running through formulas in their heads like the girl gonna like the boy? Are the families gonna get along?

What’s the rabbi gonna say? Are they gonna start having children right away? And the matchmaker would sort of think through all of this, put two people together, and that would be the end of it. So in my case I thought, you know, will data and an algorithm lead me to my Prince Charming?” So I decided to sign on.

Now, there was one small catch. As I’m signing on to the various dating websites, as it happens, I was really, really busy. But that actually- … that actually wasn’t the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that I hate filling out questionnaires of any kind. Uh, and I certainly don’t like questionnaires that are like Cosmo quizzes, I just copied and pasted from my resume. Um. So in the descriptive part up top I said that I was an award-winning journalist and a future thinker. When I was asked about fun activities and like my ideal date, I said monetization. And fluency in Japanese. I talked a lot about JavaScript. Uh, so this was not the best way to- put my most sexy foot forward. But the real failure was that there were plenty of men for me to date. These algorithms had a sea full of men that wanted to take me out on lots of dates, what turned out to be truly awful dates. Uh, there was this guy Steve the IT guy. The algorithm matched us up because we share a love of gadgets, we share a love of math and data and ’80s music, and so I agreed to go out with him.

Um, so Steve the IT guy invited me out to one of Philadelphia’s white tablecloth extremely expensive restaurants and, you know, we went in and right off the bat our conversation really wasn’t sort of taking flight. Um, but he was ordering a lot of food. In fact, he didn’t even bother looking at the menu.

He was ordering multiple appetizers, multiple entrees for me as well, and suddenly there are piles and piles of food on our table. Also, lots and lots of bottles of wine. Um, so we’re nearing the end of our conversation and, and the end of dinner and I’ve decided Steve the IT guy and I are really just not meant for each other, but we’ll part ways as friends, when he gets up to go to the bathroom. And in the meantime, the bill comes to our table and, uh, listen, I’m a modern woman. I’m totally down with, with splitting the bill. But then Steve the IT guy like didn’t come back. And, uh, that was my entire month’s rent. Oh. So needless to say, I was not having a good night. So I run-

Okay, couple of things here. Um

I have things to say too. Go for it.

First comment here is like that she’s done two things here. First of all, she’s ta- kind of taken us through the story of, um, how she used the data, which was, “I tried this, it didn’t work, so I tried something else.” But she didn’t harp on about it. Um, it was, you know, “I tried uploading my resume. It didn’t work, came to a dead end.” Um, to the second one, and then we got into a really specific story, and this is what makes it interesting. She could have just said, “I went out with a guy, and he left me with a $1,300 bill.” But that’s not what she said. She walked us through the whole night, and then, you know, we get this visual of the $1,300 bill that he’s left her with when she- he’s gone to the bathroom. Um, and just the way that she walked through that very specific moment in time, really powerful

Yeah, it was a thing I loved was that when we talk about, you know, data storytelling, combining data with story, that’s how it’s done. We parked the data even to go for that specific example, and what we noticed was there was a shot of the audience, and this is a TEDx talk. It’s not in a big venue. It looks like it’s almost in, like, a bookstore or a cafe.

That shot of the audience, you can see everybody leaning in and paying so much attention, and probably knowing that this is going to be one of those bad date stories, but the details is what’s entertaining and engaging. Um, brilliant way to engage us into what could be an otherwise, um, generic data-driven type of talk

All right, keep going

home, I call my mother, I call my sister, and as I do at the end of each one of these terrible, terrible dates, I regale them with the details. they say to me- “Stop complaining.” “You’re just being too picky.” So I said, “Fine. From here on out, I’m only going on dates where I know that there’s Wi-Fi, and I’m bringing my laptop. I’m gonna shove it into my bag, and I’m gonna have this email template, and I’m gonna fill it out and collect information on all these different data points during the date to prove to everybody that empirically these dates really are terrible.”

A brilliant thing there, kind of like you said, Kate, there was a very specific example of that story. Um, look at this audience, they’re paying attention where I’ve paused it. Uh, there was that very specific story, and then she said, “All of these terrible dates.” I think it would be really easy to say, “I went on like, you know, 10, 20, 30 terrible dates,” but that’s not as engaging as giving us that one specific lean into this example.

Uh, it’s just a brilliant tactic. Just noticed that, yeah, there was more than one of those experiences

Yeah, for sure

Tracking things like, um, really stupid, awkward sexual remarks, uh, bad vocabulary, the number of times a man forced me to high-five him So I started, uh, to, to crunch some numbers, and that allowed me to make some correlations. Um, so as it turns out for some reason, men who drink scotch reference kinky sex immediately, uh Well, it turns out that these probably weren’t bad guys. They were just bad for me. And as it happens, the algorithms that were setting us up, weren’t bad either. These algorithms were doing exactly what they were designed to do, which was to take our user-generated information, in my case, my resume, and match it up with other people’s information. See, the real problem here is that while the algorithms work just fine, you and I don’t. When confronted with blank windows where we’re supposed to input our information online, very few of us have the ability to be totally and brutally honest with ourselves. The other problem is that these websites are asking us questions like, “Are you a dog person or a cat person? Uh, do you like horror films or romance films?” You know, I’m not looking for a pen pal, I’m looking for a husband, right? so there’s a certain amount of superficiality in that data. So I said, “Fine. I’ve got a new plan. I’m gonna keep using these on-

What’s happened here, which I love, is the contrast. She’s gone from a really whimsical part of her story, especially with the, like, guys with references to kinky sex drink scotch. Like, there was that correlation. Um, whether it was a true correlation, don’t know, but it- she used it really humorously. And then it came back, like we’ve got this contrast to this really serious point that she was making. And just her demeanor, her tone, everything changed, and it was like, ooh, it made you lean in and listen because clearly this is the important part. This is the bit that we need to absorb, like, kind of the message. Um, just the contrast used beautifully here

Online dating sites, but I’m gonna treat them as databases. And rather than waiting for an algorithm to set me up, I think I’m gonna try reverse engineering this entire system. So knowing that there was superficial data that was being used to match me up with other people, I decided instead to ask my own questions.

What was every single possible thing that I could think of that I was looking for in a mate? So I started writing, and writing, and writing, and at the end, I had amassed 72 different data points. I wanted somebody who was Jew-ish. So I was looking for somebody who had the same background and, you know, thoughts on our culture, but wasn’t gonna force me to go to shul every, you know, Friday and Saturday. I wanted somebody who worked hard, because work for me is extremely important, but not too hard. For me, the hobbies that I have are really just new work projects that I’ve launched. Um, I also wanted somebody who not only wanted two children, but was gonna have the same attitude toward parenting that I do.

So somebody who was gonna be totally okay with forcing our child to start taking piano lessons at age three, um, and, uh, and also maybe computer science classes if we could wrangle it. So things like that, but I also wanted somebody who would go to far-flung exotic places like Petra, Jordan. also wanted somebody who would weigh 20 pounds more than me at all times, regardless of what I weighed. So I now have these 72 different data points, which to be fair, is a lot. So what I did was I went through and I prioritized that list. I broke it into a top tier and a second tier of points. Um, and I, I ranked everything, uh, starting at 100, uh, and going all the way down to 91, um, and listing things like I was looking for somebody who was really smart, who would challenge and stimulate me, and balancing that with a second tier and a second set of points. Um, these things were also important to me, but not necessarily deal breakers.

We have detail here. Um, I’ve paused this on a list of these tiered traits. There is a lot to read. Um, I, I’ve, I don’t know. Is it important to be able to read this? Is there too much on screen? Probably, um, a little bit of both. What I like here is the choice to go into detail here. There is a part of me thinks this is kind of not just what Amy did, and the type of thing that I would listen to and be like, “Okay, so what?”

This is the type of thing I look at and go, it’s kind of informative. It’s kind of educational. If you wanted to recreate this, you could. It’s kind of like, “Here’s an experience that worked for me.” There’s enough detail here to kind of recreate it. It’s just an interesting choice of where we put that detail in, if that makes sense

I personally don’t like this detail. I think it’s too much. I don’t think I’ve listened to anything that she’s said in the past 20 seconds, because to me this is kind of interesting and a bit fun, and I wanna read it, and I’ve just realized, like, I haven’t actually listened to her. I’ve just tried to read this.

And I guarantee

I mean

plenty of audience members doing the same thing. Um, so what I would’ve done instead here is pick… Well, I mean, she did. She read out, “Here

Yeah

things that are important to me.” But what I would’ve done is picked some things, ’cause she read out the, the top ones that were worth, like, 100 points, and then maybe pick two or three things something that was worth 20 points, like dress well in a way that I can appreciate. You know, that’s on the list, but it’s not important. So just give me the, the idea of the scale there

Yeah. Yeah, certainly too much detail on screen. I think you’ve convinced me. Yep, yep. All right, let’s continue

So once I had all this done, I then built a scoring system because, uh, you know, what I wanted to do was to sort of mathematically calculate whether or not I thought the guy that I found online would be a match with me. I, I figured there’d be a minimum of 700 points before I would agree to email somebody or respond to an email message. For 900 points, I’d agree to go out on a date, and I wouldn’t even consider any kind of relationship before somebody had crossed the 1,500-point threshold. Well, as it turns out, this worked pretty well. So I go back online now. I found who’s incredibly good-looking, incredibly well-spoken. He had hiked Mount Fuji. He had walked along the Great Wall. He likes to travel as long as it doesn’t involve a cruise ship, right? And I thought, “I’ve done it. I’ve cracked the code.” have just found the Jewish Prince Charming- of my family’s dreams.” There was only one problem. He didn’t like me back. Oh. And I guess the one variable that I haven’t considered is the competition. Who are all of the other women on these dating sites? I found SmileyGirl1978. She said she was a fun girl who is happy and outgoing. She listed her job as teacher. She said she is silly, nice, and friendly. She likes to make people laugh a lot. this moment, I knew, clicking after profile after profile after profile that looked like this, that I needed to do some market research.

So created 10 fake male profiles. Now-

I really thought we were going into that, and I, I think I actually like that we didn’t, because like grape was spelt G-R-A-T-E. Um

all the, uh, spelling errors, yeah

She highlighted all the issues, but she didn’t, um, she didn’t go into them. And I think I thought she was going to, and I was ready to have a laugh, and then I was like, “You know what?

That’s actually classy that she didn’t.”

All of you. All right. Understand that I did this strictly to gather data about everybody else in the system. I didn’t carry on crazy catfish style relationships with anybody. I really was just scraping their data, but I didn’t want everybody’s data. I only wanted data on the women who were gonna be attracted to the type of man that I really, really wanted to marry. When I, uh, released these men into the wild, I did follow some rules. So I didn’t reach out to any woman first. I just waited to see who these profiles were going to attract. And mainly what I was looking at was two different data sets. So I was looking at qualitative data. So what was the humor, the tone, the voice, the communication style that these women shared in common? And also quantitative data. So what was the average length of their profile? What– How much time was spent between messages? What I was trying to get at here was that I figured in person, you know, I would be just as competitive as a SmileyGirl1978. I wanted to figure out how to maximize my own, um, profile online. one month later, I had, uh, a lot of data, and I was able to do another analysis. And as it turns out, content matters a lot. So smart people tend to write a lot. Three thousand, four thousand, five thousand words about themselves, which may all be very, very interesting. The challenge here, though, is that the popular men and women are sticking to ninety-seven words on average, um, that are written very, very well, even though it may not seem like it all the time. Um, the other sort of hallmark of the people who do this well is that they’re using non-specific language. So in my case, you know, The English Patient was my most favorite movie ever. Uh, but, um, it doesn’t work to use that in a profile because that’s a superficial data point and somebody may disagree with me and decide they don’t wanna go out with me ’cause they didn’t like sitting through the three-hour movie. Also, optimistic language matters a lot. So this is a word cloud highlighting the most popular words that were used by the most popular women, words like fun and girl and love. And what I realized was not that I had to dumb down my own profile. Remember, I’m somebody who said that I speak fluent Japanese and I know, you know, JavaScript, uh, and I was okay with that. Um, the difference is that it’s about being more approachable, uh, and, and helping people understand the best way to reach out to you. And as it turns out, timing is also really, really important. Just because you have access to somebody’s, you know, mobile phone number or their instant message account, and it’s two o’clock in the morning and you happen to be awake, doesn’t mean that that’s a good time t-to communicate with those people.

I was just thinking here, she’s done such a beautiful job. Like, she’s clearly a nerd and she’s embracing it, but I think could easily have fallen into the realm of sounding quite elitist,

Mm-hmm.

she managed to avoid that beautifully

Hmm.

I think I’d, I’d have to think a little bit harder, um, and probably watch it a few times to know exactly, um, how she did that.

But it just sounded, it sounded like someone who was self-aware and trying to understand, “How do I be more popular? Um, you know, be like the girls that guys like,” rather than like, “I’m just too smart for them.” Um, she just did it beautifully, just tread that line really well.

Yeah. The other thing I noticed going on here is the structure of what she’s telling us. So she… It’s not just information for information’s sake. She has said, like, “This is the thing that I did. This is what I found out,” heap of information. Um, you know, “This is what the popular people are doing, the words they’re using.”

And she’s also translated that to, “So what does it mean? How can I use this? How could other people use what I have found here?” It’s very much relating these findings to something that is useful. It’s really giving us that so what factor, which I, I quite like as well. It’s a subtle structure, even in a reasonably, uh, humorous, entertaining TED Talk

The popular women on, on these online sites spent an average of 23 hours in between each communication. Um, and that’s what we would normally do in the usual process of courtship. And finally, there were the photos. All of the women who were popular showed some skin. Uh, they all looked really great, which turned out to be in sharp contrast to what I had uploaded. Once I had all of this information, I was able to create a super profile. So it was still me, but it was me optimized now for this ecosystem. And as it turns out, I did a really good job. I was the most popular person online. And as it turns out, lots and lots of men wanted to date me. So I call my mom, I call my sister, I call my grandmother. I’m telling them about this fabulous news, and they say, “This is wonderful. How soon are you going out?” And I said, “Well, actually, I’m not gonna go out with anybody,” because remember, in my scoring system, they ha- they have to reach a minimum threshold of 700 points, and none of them have d- done that. They said, “What? You’re still being too damn picky.” Well, not too long after that, I found this guy, Thevenin, uh, and he said that he was culturally Jewish. Uh, he said that his job was an Arctic baby seal hunter. Which I thought was very clever. he talked, uh, in detail about travel. He made a lot of really interesting cultural references.

He looked and talked exactly like what I wanted, and immediately, he scored 850 points. It was enough for a date. Three weeks later, we met up in person for what turned out to be a 14-hour long conversation that went from coffee shop, to restaurant, to another coffee shop, to another restaurant, and when he dropped me back off at my house that night, I rescored him. I thought, “You know what? This entire time, I haven’t been picky enough.” Well, a year and a half after that, we were non-cruise ship traveling, uh, through Petra, Jordan, he got down on his knee and proposed. A year after that, we were married, and about a year and a half after that, our daughter, Petra, was born.

Aw.

Sorry to interrupt the emotional moment here. There is a very clever technique I know she just used. She was breadcrumbing that really neatly. Remember really early on she said, “I’m interested in people who travel to, like, exotic places like Petra, Jordan.” It was a throwaway line, but it breadcrumbed to this chat took her to Petra, the daughter’s name is Petra.

Like the use of three, but it breadcrumbed just that little detail in there

Yeah, that’s, I, um, that’s interesting. I didn’t even notice that. But when she said, uh, like, “This is us in Jordan,” I was like, “Oh, she wanted to go there.” I didn’t even think that of course she set that up. Yeah. I th- I think the takeaway from this, Thomas, is that you need to show some more skin on your dating profile

Are you saying my long sleeve shirt at the moment’s not, not doing it? Let’s finish this talk

Obviously, I’m having a fabulous life. So The question is, what does all of this mean for you? Well, as it turns out, there is an algorithm for love. It’s just not the ones that we’re being presented with online. In fact, it’s something that you write yourself. So whether you’re looking for a husband or a wife, or you’re trying to find your passion, or you’re trying to start a business, all you have to really do is figure out your own framework and play by your own rules, and feel free to be as picky as you want. Well, on my wedding day, I had a conversation again with my grandmother, and she said, “All right. Maybe I was wrong. It looks like you did come up with a really, really great system. Now, your matzo balls.” “They should be fluffy, not hard.” And I’ll take her advice on that.

I dunno about that last line. I get why she did it. There’s the classic, like, end on a laugh, leave on a high kinda thing. Um, do I think that that was the best line? Mm, I dunno. Maybe, maybe not.

I think it’s a cultural

get,

joke that like, yeah, I don’t think… I don’t know what a matzo ball is. Sounds tasty. Um, yeah

The takeaway message, not, I’m not entirely sure. I mean, she was very explicit with it at the end, but I think it could have maybe been stronger throughout. Um, maybe it felt a little bit bolted on, like the ultimate message was you’ve gotta have your own system, you’ve gotta have your own, you know, things that you like.

Um, I felt it a little bit in contrast, like her, her was a little bit you’ve gotta have your own list and, you know, love is out there. But I found that to be in contrast with I had to go through all of this data analysis and scrape everyone’s data and scrape all the girls’ data to actually find it, and then she’s like, “But all you need to do is write your own list.” Um, I’m not sure that that’s fully congruent in my mind, but I could just be looking at it hard as well. Like overall, I really loved it. I, I really… It felt really nice. It just felt good

I think that’s kind of the, uh, the place this talk lives. Right at the end there, there was that shot. Um, definitely a small audience, maybe 30 people in, it looks like a function room next to a cafe type of thing. I get the impression that this type of event, um, like I know it was a TEDx event, but I think otherwise I would think it might have been some kind of tech or kind of nerdy topic, um, night or series of talks, and she’s kind of the, the after dinner data, but light, but entertaining kind of talk that kind of feels like the place it fits, um, rather than something kind of, I guess, hardcore message takeaway.

Message is always important, but that’s, that’s how I take, um, take this talk. I still giggle at it the same as I did, I don’t know, 10 years ago when I first came across it

Yeah. Just a really lovely story and yeah, I lo- I love the methodology and, and talking the whole thing through. Just,

Yeah.

Good one. Good

And I think the last thing I noticed as well was just you can tell this is a 2013 talk. There was just, like, a couple of references in there that don’t line up anymore. Like, the, the seal clubbing joke. R- that was, like, a bit of a meme in, what, the 2000s?

I don’t think I got that one

Look, most of the talk aged really well. It’s just that one I went, “Oh, yeah, that was humour back in the, back in the day.” Haven’t heard about seal clubbing in, you know, probably a decade at least. All right. Anyway, that was, that was Amy Webb, How I Hacked Online Dating. If you wanna go and watch or listen to that in full, we’ll put a link in the description on your…

You, you’ll be able to find it, I’m sure. And we’ll put a link, uh, to this whole podcast and the notes and transcript on our website. Do you have any final thoughts, Kate?

So good talk. I liked it

Yep, good to come back and, uh, analyze and break down a talk

What number do you give it? I, I think I’m gonna give it a seven Seven out of 10

Yep, I’ll agree with seven out of 10

Yeah

All right. On that we have, we’re gonna rank them now. All right, cool. Thank you very much for listening to episode two of season two, our very first breakdown. It’s good to be back, and we’ll see you in a week